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180G Journal

8K views 60 replies 11 participants last post by  slipfinger 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey everyone,

New to the forum, looks like a great community.
Wanted to share my experience as I get into a planted 180g FW build.

About 10 years ago I got into crested geckos and really got into the vivarium part of the hobby... building tanks and interesting ecosystems... bred them for awhile.

Then I went into dart frogs with a large colony of borja ridge ventrimaculata housed in a custom 100g planted viv. The vivarium included a 6gallon planted pond feature where I had guppies, tetras etc. Having spent a number of years in the dart frog hobby, I certainly appreciate the value of a local hobby forum/community.

Recently I undertook a project to renovate my basement in full and decided to pull the trigger on a 180gallon in-wall aquarium.

I haven't yet decided on the fish species, but am really taken with the Amano style of Nature Aquarium and will likely be emulating this style of tank.

I've attached a couple pictures of the build location in the basement. From the one side of the wall, as you come down the stairs into the basement there is a 'porthole' which exposes about 1/3 of the tank. From the other side, the tank will be fully visible from the bar/office/theatre sections of my basement.

The opening is oversized by about 8" on the left side to allow for me to run plumbing/electrical up the side of the tank. The idea was to then cover the front in wood paneling with doors etc.

Seeing as we were framing the basement from scratch, while I know it is over-kill, the contractor went with LVL beam, supported on the concrete floor and tied into the wall structure. Thought was that this should remain straight, strong and sturdy for many years to come. I have included a dedicated electrical circuit with two, 2-gang outlets (1top, 1 bottom - at opposite ends of the tank), some ventilation and a place to run RO lines once the bar (to the left) is complete and an RO unit installed. We used moisture resilient drywall and the ceiling was first strapped with 1/2 drywall to allow me to screw/secure into this anywhere to hang lights etc.

The 180g low-e tank from Aqua Inspirations is on order, as is the 75g sump.
I'm inclined to go with Radion FW LEDs and the Vortech pump. Beyond that I haven't finalized equipment yet.

One area I'm struggling to nail-down is the cabinet facing... how I am going to complete the paneling on the front of the tank. I would like to have one large top hinged door across the top, and a couple doors across the bottom... My thought was then to have a large panel on the left, covering the excess space off the end of the tank, which I can remove if needed to service the plumbing and electrical.

Attached is a conceptual drawing for this as it ties into the bar...
I had a quote to face the tank/openings in a Walnut Vaneer/Waterproof MDF product, but the quote was significantly more than I had imagined... Would definitely appreciate any suggestions, contacts on this piece!

Look forward to sharing my progress, learning from the vast experience of the community and diving into this project head-first!

Happy to get some feedback, suggestions and questions to help guide me through this exciting project and hopefully add some value to this community along the way.
 

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#36 ·
Yeah that looks better. Scaping a tank like that does not look easy. It's dry now take your time with it. I re-scape my tank often and that takes me quite some time I can only imagine what doing a re-scape on a tank that size is like.

The reactor is just sitting here so if and when you want to try it let me know.

The low light thing might be a good approach though it will be hard to gauge if your co2 is dialed in with less plant mass with less light and slower growing plants. Its also going to take a long time to fill in. You also may find that you will have to re-tune/adjust things once you introduce plants that are more co2 dependent. But having established rooted plants does have its benefits.

I find that co2 is the biggest factor with planted tanks. It can be difficult to know if we are delivering enough. Drop checkers and charts let's us know we are in within a ballpark range but that's about it. A tank that size only complicates matters. I'm the past I used to fiddle with lights, ferts, stocking levels, soils, RO water and so on. Always assuming my co2 was good. Looking back now in pretty sure my co2 was the cause of most of my woes.

When in doubt lower light and up the co2. That fixes most of my problems now.

Watch the ammonia spike with the soil. That's a lot of soil.

I'm looking forward to seeing this thing running.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Thanks Planter. Ive decided not to run C02 right from the start... want to get a better feel for this tank before I start dosing CO2 or ferts.

Glad my thoughts re lower light initially make sense.
I also read that Algae growth requires long, sustained periods of photosynthesis, whereas typical plants start photosynthesis the moment lights turn on...

So I've set my Radions with a 'siesta' period in the middle of the day... in effect I have two sunlight patterns for the day with a total of 7hrs, 1.5 of which decreases to lights off in the middle of the day...
Hopefully help me keep algae at bay initially.


SOOOOOOO>>>>

I planted my initial plants...
Admittedly, the Tropica plants had much more compressed/short root structures than I had anticipated... I found the montecarlo in particular really hard to get rooted/firmly into the Amazonia soil.

What REALLY sucks... is once I planted into moist ADA soil, as their videos suggest, I then began filling the tank...

Check out the pictures to see just how cloudy she got!! UNREAL. I was careful not to disturb with the water input too!
Anyway, was NOT impressed.
Ended up doing 5x 50% water changes (fluvial makes water changes easy but only allows for 50% water level before the syphon stops in my tank)

There is/was also a fine layer of dust all over everything... the plants, the rocks etc... see pic

Anyway, mostly clear now... although white/hazy. I am putting two bags of perigean in the canister, hopefully this helps... Not sure if its just a chemical reaction or what...

The last and final frustration... and not sure how I will get over this one, is that there are two varieties of Eloocharis and Alternathera... One short variety and one tall variety of each...
So the frustrating part comes when I turned on my filter and about 25% of the plants I put into the ADA then proceeded to float to the top! Really surprised how light the ADA is once water is added... combined with Tropica roots, not a lot to hold.

ANYWAY I now have mixed the Elocharis and Alternathera - short & tall and don't know where to plant them back seeing as I was trying to achieve two different heights in two different areas.


Anyway... updated pics attached.
 

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#39 ·
I also read that Algae growth requires long, sustained periods of photosynthesis, whereas typical plants start photosynthesis the moment lights turn on...
What did you read that convinced you the above was true? I've looked into it a bit and while some people think it works other "experts" haven't seen any proof of algae control.

The one angle that does make sense is with tanks that don't inject CO2 and rely on some other source. In such cases the siesta allows the CO2 to build up in the water after it has been depleted by the initial lighting period.

And of course, many just like to have the lights on when they're home rather than at work.
 
#40 ·
I've done the siesta thing. Although I think most people do it to reduce the overall time the lights are on so they can enjoy their tanks lit up when they are home. Saves bulb life and power. Plants start photosynthesis as soon as they are exposed to enough light. No idea if algae is the same. I think this myth came from folks running lights all day. Plants only use light for so many hours before they need to rest. Most people say around 12 hours but who knows if every species behaves that way. I find 4 -6 hours more than enough time.
 
#44 ·
Ill have some updated pictures tomorrow.

I do have some good signs of growth on a couple plants in the last 5 days... new roots, shoots etc... but other plants are starting to show some signs of distress...

At this point ammonia is through the roof and I can't seem to shake the white 'haze' in the water... Doesn't seem to be getting better at all...
 
#45 ·
Yeah the ammonia is nuts with that soil. Some use it to cycle the tank then plant it after. If your going to plant right away wait until it's cycled then add the fish. A couple of 100 percent water changes after the cycle is done should do it. The only haze I got from the soil was the film that was left of the glass after the first fill up.

The ammonia is good for the plants just keep the light low so you don't induce algae
 
#46 ·
Alright... so things seem to be going reasonably well, one week in. Water is still hazy/white and Ammonia is still really high...
I did add a bottle of Colony with the hopes of kickstarting the good bacteria. I also helped the filter along by putting a bag of biological media from my established Fluval Edge tank into my canister filter.

Although a couple plants are showing signs of stress and I would certainly appreciate some opinions on what may be going on.
Water parameters:
Temp - 77
pH - 6.6
NH3 Ammonia - 1.5ppm
N02 Nitrite - 0ppm
NO3 Nitrate - 0ppm
GH - 50-100
KH - 0-50ppm

Lighting: 3x Radion Freshwater
Starts 1pm Ends at 11pm
Broken into two periods
1st crest at 3:30pm
Siesta (off) at 6:00pm
2nd crest at 8:30pm
Night (off) at 11:00pm

Anubius leaves are starting to ripple a lot and one or two leaves are starting to die back. - See Pic I am guessing this is due to change in the lighting, I believe the lighting I have now is much stronger than the low-light setup at the store.

Alternathera reineckii 'purple' a couple leaves are now showing larger holes appearing. There are no snails/critters in the tank yet.

Althernatthera ******* 'mini' - leaves are starting to curl, particularly at the ends

Crypts seem to be doing real well... They are shooting out roots and looking real nice

Monte Carlo is slow... but still looks healthy and I see signs of new growth/rooting

Myriphyllum is showing new growth, but the old/original growth doesn't look amazing...

Eleocharis looks healthy, seeing new roots although some of the longer blades are turning yellow...

Scaurogyne repens - Looked to be melting a bit initially, but not looking quite heathy
 

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#48 ·
Negative, 90% of the plants were HortLab/Tropica plants...
Someone elsewhere suggested that perhaps Ammonia (1.5-2ppm) is high enough its burning my plants?
Is that likely?

It was my understanding that typically very little fert is required in ADA in the beginning as its loaded with it... I've also added Flourish Trace - half dose, twice in the last week wondering if that would help...

Otherwise, I'm thinking perhaps its a lighting issue...
Hard to know...

Thanks again Planter for the Blyxa!
 
#49 · (Edited)
Okay I took a look at your specs and photos.

Your plants are just fresh from the farm that grow commercially with high levels of co2 (or emersed). They'll adjust to your tank in due time. That said, having no co2 is probably going to give you headaches in the future. You should be pumping co2 right now or algae will be next.

Also you see your hairgrass is getting shoots above the gravel line. Sign of insufficient co2. The key is light that is lower than co2. If we're talking deficiency, it's mostly co2 instead of light/nutrients. You want to reduce light/nutrients to prevent algae.
 
#50 · (Edited)
Thanks CB1021

My gut was that it probably wasn't a nutrient deficiency this soon, particularly seeing as there is no CO2, ADA has loads of nutrients and the tank is so fresh.

I'm hoping that much of it is related to the plants simply adjusting to new environment.

CO2 would make sense. I've been really struggling with whether to introduce pressurized CO2 right away. In some sense I would like to balance light levels and plant growth/health balanced before going to CO2 and ferts. In other words... get this stabilized 'low-tech' then up lights, introduce CO2 and start dosing...

That way I have a good baseline to work from and a good 'feel' of my tank...

That being said... like you've suggested, it would make sense that my light levels are too high and CO2 is the limiting factor.

Is there any preference in adjusting overall brightness vs colour temp vs length of light period?

Attached is a screenshot of the light schedule I'm working with right now.
The middle probably will be questionable. It suits our schedule... no one is in the basement then... it also was designed to allow some time for CO2 to stabilize and I had read in a reputable book that a 'siesta' period can help disrupt the energy cycle for algae.

Anyway... would be interested for opinions on how to adjust the lighting schedule if in fact its too high right now...

*See Pics For Current Light Schedule/Settings*

Thanks!
 

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#51 ·
I believe color temperature is not that important. Intensity and duration are usually the main factors for driving growth. I've never used those lights before but from what I understand they are powerful. Sorry I really can't help with the settings but most posts I've read on other forums have folks running these fixtures at 50 percent or less in high tech co2 setups.

There is nothing wrong with adding co2 with low light setups. If the light is low you wouldnt have to worry to much about adding high concentrations of co2. The margin for error is much greater with less light. Much easier to balance.

You also may find that you won't need to dose ferts or perform large weekly waterchanges with the Ada soil right away. Although you should be doing them now until the tank cycles. I suspect you would have more luck with co2 now.

Then once you add the more demanding plants you can add / adjust the light / co2 / ferts if you find you need to. Just an option to consider.

I've tried doing this before where I've setup a low light tank with the intention of allowing the tank to mature and letting the plants establish. I found myself too impatient i simply didnt want to wait. I ended up adding co2 about 2 months in.

Light drives everything. less light means less co2 less ferts and less water changes. Easy to dial in and maintain. If Algae does appear in a setup like this you can usually spot it early and deal with it easier as well.

Low light plants also love co2.
 
#52 ·
I'd also add CO2 now if that's your long-term plan. It changes everything so what you learn without it may not actually end up being all that useful if you end up tweaking the lights and ferts.

Of course if you're interested in a non-CO2 tank, that's fine too and what you learn now will certainly help.

The advantage of starting with everything now and scaling back (rather than ramping up as you're doing) is that you get to find out what is possible in terms of plant health and growth. When you know what's possible, you can cut back to what's desirable and manageable.

In my opinion, ramping up leaves you guessing as to what might be wrong whenever a problem comes up. Too much of this? Too little of that? Multiple issues?
 
#53 · (Edited)
Thank to you both! Very helpful.

I will definitely scale back lighting intensity and go to CO2 sooner rather than later. It does make sense to see whats possible, then scale back... and admittedly, I'm not the most patient guy in the world either...

But yes, hoping that the ADA holds up as far as nutrients go for a little while... One of the reasons I've held back from CO2 is I'm not fully researched/comfortable on the fert dosing either... I'd hate to ramp that up and then totally fudge the fert part.

I'm away for a few days now on work, will scale back lighting to 50% then see about finalizing my CO2 setup upon return through next week.

Thanks again guys!
 
#54 ·
So as I did a water change before heading off on work for 3-4 days... I saw this!

Pearling...

Watch through for a small video update of the tank...

Man what a thing of beauty to see for the first time. Hadn't expected to until I started CO2 and really pumping high-light, but maybe that was just my naivety...
 
#55 ·
Damaged stems or stems that have recently been cut will do this. Also after a WC aerated water sometimes sit on the plants giving the impression of pearling. Iooking at the video it doesn't look like it's pearling to me. My plants do this when I trim them or on the leaves/stems get damaged.

Pearling only tells you that the water is fully saturated in o2. It doesn't necessarily mean that all of the plants are growing.

I could be wrong though.
 
#58 ·
Crap. Away in business. Not back until tomorrow evening. Face timed with my wife... eleocharis is starting to yellow pretty significantly, myriphyllum is starting to brown a lot too. Despite it looking good just two days ago...
I turned down the lights a bit before I left but not by a tonne... really wish I could get back sooner!
 
#59 ·
Home from a 4 day biz trip... and some good news bad news.
Good news... Tank is cycling rapidly now..

Tuesday parameters:
Ammonia - 1.5ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm

Todays parameters
Ammonia - .5ppm
Nitrite - 2ppm
Nitrate - 5ppm

Have found what I believe to be diatoms... see pics. Based on reading I've done, I understand that at this point its nothing to worry about.

Once the Nitrites come down I will be introducing my Ammano Shrimp & Siamese Algae eater already feasting away in my quarantine tank


BAD NEWS:
Plants are suffering... badly.
I'm having a hard time dialling in exactly what is going on with them.
I turned down the lighting probably 30% when I left and dosed a full dose of Flourish Advance, which came 1 day after dosing Flourish trace.

1/3 of my grasses are now brown/dying. The Monte Carlo which was looking amazing before I left, now appears to loosing leaves.

Even the Myriophyllum which is arguably the easiest plant in the tank, has started to die back, whereas a few days ago it was thriving.

I'm leaning towards not enough light instead of too much light...
Interestingly, the plants which are doing really well are the S Repens I have mid-way up the driftwood, closest to the light...

It seems things certainly got worse when I was gone after turning lights down. And I'm skeptical at this point its a lack of frets or CO2 given the changes over the last couples days.


Would really like some additional opinions/thoughts!
 

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#60 ·
Hey everyone,

Real sorry for letting this journal lapse.

Lots has happened, including the birth of my second daughter. Which has eaten up a lot of time.

Here's a quick video update. The pearling is 10x more noticeable in person...

I am having an issue with GSA on my rocks and driftwood, otherwise everything else going well



18+ plant species
Amano shrimp (30)
Otto catfish
Cardinal tetra
Dwarf rainbow
Rummy nose tetra
Denison barbs
(1) Siamese algae eater

Pressurized co2
(2) FX6 Filters
MP40
Neptune Apex
(3) Radion freshwater LED
Eheim Surface Skimmer
 
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