[mitko1994]

Hello Everyone,

I have been fighting some sort of disease for at least 3 months now I've tried kanaplex but no help. Some fish turn black( get dark stains) and die others have some sort of white spots, and the danios develop dropsy and die. Here are some pics can some identify it and suggest some meds?

The harlequin rasbora has white stuff on its back fin, and the serpae tetra is going black. Here are the pics.

Thanks

 

[mitko1994]

The serape died this morning, I will be doing 50% emergenecy water change when I get home

 

[Mlevi]

what are your water parameters? Ammonia, Nitrate, ph?
'white spots' is usually ick, but I've had angels in the past with whitish fungus around their mouths. They were a rescue project. Do you have a quarantine tank to separate the sick fish from the not sick ones?

Al.

 

[BillD]

I would change more than 50%. If there are water borne pathogens or toxins, the change will get rid of that percentage. If you do 50% you will remove 50%, only. At this point, water parameters aren't really important.

 

[Mlevi]

...At this point, water parameters aren't really important.

The reason I asked about water parameters, is because of his original description of fish 'turning black', which is usually a sign of ammonia burn, in my experience. Even a small degree of ammonia burn can make fish more vulnerable to parasites due to ulcers that the pathogens can exploit, which might also account for the ick and dropsy.

Back in the days before the internet and information being so readily available, the common mantra was "If something goes wrong in your tank, start with investigating the water, and then go on from there".

Al.

 

[pyrrolin]

The first thing we usually ask is for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates when there is a problem.

Never knew about ammonia burn, nice to have new info I didn't know

 

[mitko1994]

Thank you for your responses.I just did a 50% water change. It looks like it might actually be ammonia burn because I read that it may also cause red streaks and spots along the body,as well as loss of apetite. That is actually the case with a roseline shark and my male krib.As you seen in the second pic, the white stuff is more like a fungus rather than ick since it's more like a patch rather than a dot. I came late so I didn't get the chance to actually get water params for you.I do have a small QT tank that I treated with Kanaplex( that's where the krib is).What's the next step?

Thanks

 

[pyrrolin]

get testing the water asap

 

[mitko1994]

Alright I will get that for you tomorrow

 

[BillD]

The reason I asked about water parameters, is because of his original description of fish 'turning black', which is usually a sign of ammonia burn, in my experience. Even a small degree of ammonia burn can make fish more vulnerable to parasites due to ulcers that the pathogens can exploit, which might also account for the ick and dropsy.

Al.

I understand your point, but when you get to a situation like this, what the numbers are aren't as important as acting quickly. Testing the water will not tell you if there is a large number of pathogens or toxins in the tank, other than ammonia or nitrite. If I had a nickle for every time someone has posted a problem and their water parameters are good, I would be quite comfortable. If you have a problem, the easiest start to a solution is to get rid of the problem by removing it from the tank. You don't have to know what it is, specifically, to get it out.The reality is that if their are pathogens in the tank you won't ever know specifically what they are, but your actions will determine the outcome (maybe). Sometimes it will be for naught, but you have to try. things like ich and some other parasites are visible, but the majority of infections will be difficult to diagnose, unless you can do cultures. The problem with that is by the time you find out the cause it may be too late. If you have a viral problem, there really isn't much you can do.

 

[pyrrolin]

but water parameters being bad causes the fish to have lower immunity to the bad stuff that is basically present in every tank. It just doesn't get to infect the fish because the slime coat is good and they are healthy.

If I was to suddenly start adding lots of ammonia to one of my healthy tanks causing levels to get high, I bet after a while you would see things like ick develop on my fish that are perfectly healthy right now.

 

[mitko1994]

Ok here are my water params today after a water change yesterday:
based on the API MASTER TEST KIT SCALE

Ammonia : around 0.25 ppm

Nitrite: Close to 0 ppm

Nitrate: closer to 160 ppm then to 80 ppm (160 is max on the scale )

I don't know what it is but it is a killer (another harlequin rasbora died today)

Thanks

 

[pyrrolin]

Sometimes its hard to read ammonia, in some lighting 0 can look like .25. Now, since you did a 50 percent wc and nitrates are so extreme, they were double that before the wc and probably the source of your problem. Low nitrates are fine, but when you get that high, it causes problems.

I recommend another 50 percent wc, and then another 50 percent the next day and so on until nitrates get below 20.

I can tell that you have done one of the following in the past: not enough wc, over feeding or over stocking or a combination of these.

If you don't have plants, I recommend getting some, they help reduce nitrates, some more than others.

 

[Tino]

Which plants help the most with nitrate control? (sorry, don't mean to hijack )

 

[pyrrolin]

one that I've heard is good is hornwort. Generally fast growing plants use more nitrates.

 

[mitko1994]

Ok, I will definitely do more water changes. I do have live plants. What do you mean by overstocking? Do you mean having more fish than the aquarium can support.( If so, I have a 90g tank what is a good number of fish to have? I currently have 3 rainbows and around 20 smaller tetras and dither fish and 3 small plecos), or do you mean stocking too many fish at once, because I usually introduce more than 1 fish at a time.What should the nitrates drop to? What should I do after the nitrates drop?

Thanks

 

[mistersprinkles]

What should the nitrates drop to? What should I do after the nitrates drop?

Thanks

20ppm or less of nitrates.

You need to address the ammonia that was in your tank too. You may need better biofiltration, feed less/more carefully, or a combination of the two.

Once you get the nitrate down to 20 ppm, keep up with very frequent water changes. Start with once every 2-3 days and keep an eye on the nitrates. Generally, it's good to keep nitrate at or below 20ppm, if possible. So do water changes as often as is necessary to keep the nitrates at or below 20ppm, for optimal conditions.

 

[pyrrolin]

not exactly more fish than the tank can handle, as long as the fish have enough room to move around and the filter is able to keep up with the bio load, the only problem with over stocking is the extra nitrates which just requires more water changes.

My new 20 long setup will be over stocked a bit, but the filters will be able to keep up with the bio load. I am going to have to do more frequent and larger water changes to keep nitrates in control. I need to be extra careful with over feeding which I tend to do.

I have a 10 gallon next to me right now that has a few dozen feeder guppies, it is definitely over stocked. Need to get rid of some more guppies.

 

[mitko1994]

Thanks pyrrolin, I just looked closely and noticed this white line/patch on the back end of the body on one of my rainbows. When looking at it from a different level it looks like it's slightly sticking out, but maybe it's a scar. Here is a pic.

 

[mistersprinkles]

Thanks pyrrolin, I just looked closely and noticed this white line/patch on the back end of the body on one of my rainbows. When looking at it from a different level it looks like it's slightly sticking out, but maybe it's a scar. Here is a pic.

Looks like some sort of fungus.