I would like to find out where i can buy plastic or metal mesh to make a moss wall? Your help is greatly appreciated!
xriddler
If you go to Michael's, you are looking for a product called plastic canvas. They usually keep their plastic canvas at the rear of the store, near the yarn and cross stitching supplies, simply because it's normally used for cross stitching projects.
It comes in several sizes, but the ones most useful for moss are 7 count and 10 count, which is literally the number of holes per inch in the material. Standard colour is a semi translucent white, but a number of other colours are often available too. Seven count is most common, but I find ten count works better, as the holes are smaller and the moss less likely to come out of them. Of the two, I prefer the ten count.
Personally, I find some of the colours rather too bright, but the black is nice if they have it. You may find it needs weighing down, as it is very light, and being plastic, has a tendency to float. I slip a small rock under it for moss patches.. you might tie one to the bottom of a wall or maybe some lead plant weights. If the wall is big enough you might tuck the bottom edge into the substrate to hold it in down. Once it has an ample growth of moss, that should help hold it down fairly well, I'd think. Mine haven't grown in enough to be able to tell if that's the case.
There is a member here, 03pilot, who has had stainless mesh available from time to time. Very busy and may take some time to answer a PM, but the stuff he has is really nice. So might be worth PMing him to see if he has some available.
There's a trick I've learned for tying moss to metal mesh that's faster than hand tying. I will thread longer moss stems right through the mesh holes as though they were thread, but for shorter moss bits, if you'd rather not hand tie, you can get a type of plastic netting which is used for all sorts of things, to use instead.
The net bags used to package most river rock is one source of the netting, but you can also get one of those cheap dollar store bath puffs made of plastic netting. White's fine, it will be covered over eventually. Cut the ties holding it together in the middle and you end up with a couple of 4-6 foot lengths of tubular net.
Cut a piece of netting just barely the size of the mesh you want to tie moss to. Place your moss, then stretch the net and hook its holes over the corners of the mesh. It works better with metal mesh because the wires are so much stronger and you can hook it over the protruding wires along the sides as well. But if you cut the plastic mesh so it has bristly bits sticking out on all sides, it may work for plastic too. In that case, the seven count would work better, as it gives you longer bits to hook over.
Net does a pretty good job of holding moss on until it grows in. It can be mistaken for hand tied fishing line.. which is in fact how I learned this trick, from a commercially done moss patch that went brown. When I started to take the dead moss off, I thought it was hand tied but it turned out to be this net and it was quite a chore to remove it. So it holds well. If I need to weigh down a patch, I use another piece of net to hold a small rock underneath in the same way.
For a wall using net, you would still need to tie it in the middle to keep the 'sandwich' of moss firmly in place. Monofilament line or thread will work. Still cuts down on the hand tying, but a single net piece is not going to hold well in the middle unless tied there. Every inch or two in a square grid sort of patterns should do the trick. In fact, if you get a big yarn type needle, also from Michaels, you could 'sew' the thread or mono along through the meshes and not actually have to tie it except at the start and finish.
This saves a lot of tedious hand tying of moss with fish line or thread and is easily removed if you need to.. but once the moss grows in you won't be able to see either the netting or the mesh either.
It comes in several sizes, but the ones most useful for moss are 7 count and 10 count, which is literally the number of holes per inch in the material. Standard colour is a semi translucent white, but a number of other colours are often available too. Seven count is most common, but I find ten count works better, as the holes are smaller and the moss less likely to come out of them. Of the two, I prefer the ten count.
Personally, I find some of the colours rather too bright, but the black is nice if they have it. You may find it needs weighing down, as it is very light, and being plastic, has a tendency to float. I slip a small rock under it for moss patches.. you might tie one to the bottom of a wall or maybe some lead plant weights. If the wall is big enough you might tuck the bottom edge into the substrate to hold it in down. Once it has an ample growth of moss, that should help hold it down fairly well, I'd think. Mine haven't grown in enough to be able to tell if that's the case.
There is a member here, 03pilot, who has had stainless mesh available from time to time. Very busy and may take some time to answer a PM, but the stuff he has is really nice. So might be worth PMing him to see if he has some available.
There's a trick I've learned for tying moss to metal mesh that's faster than hand tying. I will thread longer moss stems right through the mesh holes as though they were thread, but for shorter moss bits, if you'd rather not hand tie, you can get a type of plastic netting which is used for all sorts of things, to use instead.
The net bags used to package most river rock is one source of the netting, but you can also get one of those cheap dollar store bath puffs made of plastic netting. White's fine, it will be covered over eventually. Cut the ties holding it together in the middle and you end up with a couple of 4-6 foot lengths of tubular net.
Cut a piece of netting just barely the size of the mesh you want to tie moss to. Place your moss, then stretch the net and hook its holes over the corners of the mesh. It works better with metal mesh because the wires are so much stronger and you can hook it over the protruding wires along the sides as well. But if you cut the plastic mesh so it has bristly bits sticking out on all sides, it may work for plastic too. In that case, the seven count would work better, as it gives you longer bits to hook over.
Net does a pretty good job of holding moss on until it grows in. It can be mistaken for hand tied fishing line.. which is in fact how I learned this trick, from a commercially done moss patch that went brown. When I started to take the dead moss off, I thought it was hand tied but it turned out to be this net and it was quite a chore to remove it. So it holds well. If I need to weigh down a patch, I use another piece of net to hold a small rock underneath in the same way.
For a wall using net, you would still need to tie it in the middle to keep the 'sandwich' of moss firmly in place. Monofilament line or thread will work. Still cuts down on the hand tying, but a single net piece is not going to hold well in the middle unless tied there. Every inch or two in a square grid sort of patterns should do the trick. In fact, if you get a big yarn type needle, also from Michaels, you could 'sew' the thread or mono along through the meshes and not actually have to tie it except at the start and finish.
This saves a lot of tedious hand tying of moss with fish line or thread and is easily removed if you need to.. but once the moss grows in you won't be able to see either the netting or the mesh either.
That sixteen count stuff sounds interesting, I've never heard of it before, though I know plastic mesh comes in several counts besides ten and seven. Any idea what it's actually called ? I know the fabric for cross stitch is made of cotton, while the plastic mesh is just plastic, not sure exactly what kind, so I wonder what your stuff might be made of ?
But at a good bit less than 1/16th inch in diameter, I would think those holes are too small for full size moss strands to fit through. A growing point might fit at first, but then likely be choked off as it expands. 16 count means there are 16 holes per inch, and there is the material that takes up the space between the holes.. so those holes are really tiny. Mosses have rhizoids, which are what allow them to hold onto rocks or wood, but I suspect rhizoids might not actually make much difference to a mesh patch, since the texture of the mesh that is commonly used is so smooth a rhizoid would probably not be able to attach to it. It's more that the moss grows through the holes and around other stems of moss in a random way that produces a dense mat over time and covers up whatever you used to anchor the original moss bits to the mesh. So you need holes at least as big in diameter as the moss stems are. My best guess is that anything smaller than ten or 12 count would be too small.
If you know the proper or commercial name of that stuff you are using, I'd like to know what it is.
But at a good bit less than 1/16th inch in diameter, I would think those holes are too small for full size moss strands to fit through. A growing point might fit at first, but then likely be choked off as it expands. 16 count means there are 16 holes per inch, and there is the material that takes up the space between the holes.. so those holes are really tiny. Mosses have rhizoids, which are what allow them to hold onto rocks or wood, but I suspect rhizoids might not actually make much difference to a mesh patch, since the texture of the mesh that is commonly used is so smooth a rhizoid would probably not be able to attach to it. It's more that the moss grows through the holes and around other stems of moss in a random way that produces a dense mat over time and covers up whatever you used to anchor the original moss bits to the mesh. So you need holes at least as big in diameter as the moss stems are. My best guess is that anything smaller than ten or 12 count would be too small.
If you know the proper or commercial name of that stuff you are using, I'd like to know what it is.
I have done a wall, but i guess my lighting (and no CO2) or type of moss i used didnt turn out so well, as there is some browning when looking from the front, though you cant see it from sides or top. What i should have done for my low tech setup is java moss only and no other type of moss, instead of weeping moss.
Anyways, just to give you another way, its much more expensive, but gives a great look when the moss is not fully settled in (as that could take alot of time), and doesnt take too much backspace room, and if all the moss decides to die on you, the wall can still look descent as a background, and no succion cups involved!
- 1 White Canvas from Michaels or from Wallmart (the ones that Fishfur mentioned)
- 1 Black Plastic Pet screen (this one is safe, and is like rubber, nice mesh size that alot of black is viewable.
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/petscreen-36-inch-x-84-inch/982445
- Magnets (both submersible and none)
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D84PC-BLK
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82E
- fishing line, i got a green one from Canadian Tire
- alot of MOSS (depending on your lights, chose the most beautifull that will go with your system)
So first cut to size the canvas and black screen.
Then sow them togheter using fishing line. The purpose of the canvas is stability, specially for the next step. Why the black screen, for beauty, white background may not look too great in many setups.
Then sow the moss on the black screen side (the canvas side will face the aquarium wall)
Then use magnets to hold it to the wall. The rubber magnets will be for inside the aquarium, and the coated ones will be for outside it.
There, No gap in the wall, straight flush finish, can be like a blackwall when no moss (black wall is much nicer though), you dont see the white backwall so much, you dont have to wait for the moss to grow through home because the moss is right on the viewing side (ie not sandwiched between two screens) , easy to remove, magnets could also be used for other purposes (for example, i use some to hold sliced cuccembers), etc...
Comparatively, it is much more expensive, but, i like the advantages.
Whichever way you go, you will require: ALOT of patience!!! Good luck
Anyways, just to give you another way, its much more expensive, but gives a great look when the moss is not fully settled in (as that could take alot of time), and doesnt take too much backspace room, and if all the moss decides to die on you, the wall can still look descent as a background, and no succion cups involved!
- 1 White Canvas from Michaels or from Wallmart (the ones that Fishfur mentioned)
- 1 Black Plastic Pet screen (this one is safe, and is like rubber, nice mesh size that alot of black is viewable.
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/petscreen-36-inch-x-84-inch/982445
- Magnets (both submersible and none)
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D84PC-BLK
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82E
- fishing line, i got a green one from Canadian Tire
- alot of MOSS (depending on your lights, chose the most beautifull that will go with your system)
So first cut to size the canvas and black screen.
Then sow them togheter using fishing line. The purpose of the canvas is stability, specially for the next step. Why the black screen, for beauty, white background may not look too great in many setups.
Then sow the moss on the black screen side (the canvas side will face the aquarium wall)
Then use magnets to hold it to the wall. The rubber magnets will be for inside the aquarium, and the coated ones will be for outside it.
There, No gap in the wall, straight flush finish, can be like a blackwall when no moss (black wall is much nicer though), you dont see the white backwall so much, you dont have to wait for the moss to grow through home because the moss is right on the viewing side (ie not sandwiched between two screens) , easy to remove, magnets could also be used for other purposes (for example, i use some to hold sliced cuccembers), etc...
Comparatively, it is much more expensive, but, i like the advantages.
Whichever way you go, you will require: ALOT of patience!!! Good luck
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